2.20 and 2.21 release plans

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
16 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

2.20 and 2.21 release plans

David Kastrup

Ok, I think 2.20 is basically done and we should push it out by the end
of this week.  This leaves a few days for the translation team to catch
up with the current state.

In particular HINT HINT HINT it gives the opportunity to native speakers
of languages not as meticulously maintained as the currently most active
translations to at least tackle the Changes document and maybe check a
few other points of the web presence.  This is more addressed to people
reading this announcement on the lilypond-devel list than to lurkers on
the translations list, though of course the latter would be equally
welcome.

What does this mean for 2.21.0?  I think we should aim to push it out
fast afterwards, basically a few days later at most, just to get kinks
with webpage/versioning from 2.20 ironed out.

I am not sure it is realistic to expect to get the translations merged
into 2.21.0 already: because of the significant divergence experienced
so far, I expect this to be a significant merging headache.  It would be
nice to have, but not essential: this is the unstable branch after all.

For more extensive changes of internals and/or syntax, I would recommend
to let them sit till 2.21.1 before committing, assuming that we _do_
manage to get 2.21.0 out fast.  Why?  2.21.0 has by now quite
significantly diverged from 2.20.0.  If something does not quite work,
it would be nice to have a _released_ version to compare to, and nothing
but 2.21.0 would really serve that role satisfactorily.  Particularly
where problems are detected a long time after getting introduced, having
an installable version as a reference is nice, and "it stopped working
in 2.21.0" is enough of a quagmire already that we do not really want to
add a lot more here.

The size of the headache basically is commensurate with how long the
stable branch has diverged.  Hopefully we manage to find some
combination of process and responsible persons next time around that
delivers faster.

Nevertheless, I am glad we are getting there.

--
David Kastrup


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 2.20 and 2.21 release plans

Jean-Charles MALAHIEUDE
Le 17/02/2020 à 13:25, David Kastrup a écrit :

>
> Ok, I think 2.20 is basically done and we should push it out by the end
> of this week.  This leaves a few days for the translation team to catch
> up with the current state.
>
> In particular HINT HINT HINT it gives the opportunity to native speakers
> of languages not as meticulously maintained as the currently most active
> translations to at least tackle the Changes document and maybe check a
> few other points of the web presence.  This is more addressed to people
> reading this announcement on the lilypond-devel list than to lurkers on
> the translations list, though of course the latter would be equally
> welcome.
>

I've planned to merge translation into stable on Thursday night, with
the French part fully updated (lots of work with Werner's indexing).

Cheers,
--
Jean-Charles


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 2.20 and 2.21 release plans

David Kastrup
Jean-Charles Malahieude <[hidden email]> writes:

> Le 17/02/2020 à 13:25, David Kastrup a écrit :
>> Ok, I think 2.20 is basically done and we should push it out by the
>> end
>> of this week.  This leaves a few days for the translation team to catch
>> up with the current state.
>> In particular HINT HINT HINT it gives the opportunity to native
>> speakers
>> of languages not as meticulously maintained as the currently most active
>> translations to at least tackle the Changes document and maybe check a
>> few other points of the web presence.  This is more addressed to people
>> reading this announcement on the lilypond-devel list than to lurkers on
>> the translations list, though of course the latter would be equally
>> welcome.
>>
>
> I've planned to merge translation into stable on Thursday night, with
> the French part fully updated (lots of work with Werner's indexing).

That sounds great.  Well yes, the indexing changes have been very recent
and pretty large.  If anybody else feels like their work would benefit
from a minor delay, please speak up.

--
David Kastrup


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 2.20 and 2.21 release plans

Federico Bruni-3


Il giorno lun 17 feb 2020 alle 22:35, David Kastrup <[hidden email]> ha
scritto:

> Jean-Charles Malahieude <[hidden email]> writes:
>
>>  Le 17/02/2020 à 13:25, David Kastrup a écrit :
>>>  Ok, I think 2.20 is basically done and we should push it out by the
>>>  end
>>>  of this week.  This leaves a few days for the translation team to
>>> catch
>>>  up with the current state.
>>>  In particular HINT HINT HINT it gives the opportunity to native
>>>  speakers
>>>  of languages not as meticulously maintained as the currently most
>>> active
>>>  translations to at least tackle the Changes document and maybe
>>> check a
>>>  few other points of the web presence.  This is more addressed to
>>> people
>>>  reading this announcement on the lilypond-devel list than to
>>> lurkers on
>>>  the translations list, though of course the latter would be equally
>>>  welcome.
>>>
>>
>>  I've planned to merge translation into stable on Thursday night,
>> with
>>  the French part fully updated (lots of work with Werner's indexing).
>
> That sounds great.  Well yes, the indexing changes have been very
> recent
> and pretty large.  If anybody else feels like their work would benefit
> from a minor delay, please speak up.
>

I'm working on the italian update and I hope to be ready before
Thursday night.





Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 2.20 and 2.21 release plans

Federico Bruni-3
In reply to this post by Jean-Charles MALAHIEUDE


Il giorno lun 17 feb 2020 alle 22:49, Federico Bruni
<[hidden email]> ha scritto:

>
>
> Il giorno lun 17 feb 2020 alle 22:35, David Kastrup <[hidden email]> ha
> scritto:
>> Jean-Charles Malahieude <[hidden email]> writes:
>>
>>>  Le 17/02/2020 à 13:25, David Kastrup a écrit :
>>>>  Ok, I think 2.20 is basically done and we should push it out by
>>>> the
>>>>  end
>>>>  of this week.  This leaves a few days for the translation team to
>>>> catch
>>>>  up with the current state.
>>>>  In particular HINT HINT HINT it gives the opportunity to native
>>>>  speakers
>>>>  of languages not as meticulously maintained as the currently most
>>>> active
>>>>  translations to at least tackle the Changes document and maybe
>>>> check a
>>>>  few other points of the web presence.  This is more addressed to
>>>> people
>>>>  reading this announcement on the lilypond-devel list than to
>>>> lurkers on
>>>>  the translations list, though of course the latter would be
>>>> equally
>>>>  welcome.
>>>>
>>>
>>>  I've planned to merge translation into stable on Thursday night,
>>> with
>>>  the French part fully updated (lots of work with Werner's
>>> indexing).
>>
>> That sounds great.  Well yes, the indexing changes have been very
>> recent
>> and pretty large.  If anybody else feels like their work would
>> benefit
>> from a minor delay, please speak up.
>>
>
> I'm working on the italian update and I hope to be ready before
> Thursday night.
>

Can we have one day delay? So deadline to push to translation branch by
Friday night?
I guess I won't have enough time to complete the update but at least I
can use some spare time tomorrow to get close to the goal.





Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

2.20.0 release coordination with translation, also Germans? (was: [translations] 2.20 and 2.21 release plans)

David Kastrup
Federico Bruni <[hidden email]> writes:

> Il giorno lun 17 feb 2020 alle 22:49, Federico Bruni
> <[hidden email]> ha scritto:

>> I'm working on the italian update and I hope to be ready before
>> Thursday night.
>>
>
> Can we have one day delay? So deadline to push to translation branch
> by Friday night?
> I guess I won't have enough time to complete the update but at least I
> can use some spare time tomorrow to get close to the goal.

There was no fixed deadline.  My goal was "this weekend", but if that
makes things ugly, there is no point in not delaying some more days
after the years we spent on this.

In unrelated news, I tried my hand at translating at least the Changes
file into German and am about 50% done.  Anybody want to work from the
bottom so that we should coordinate in order to avoid duplicate effort?
I got kind of a headache so far.  Hats off to people who tackle a whole
translation rather than just a puny file.

--
David Kastrup


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 2.20.0 release coordination with translation, also Germans? (was: [translations] 2.20 and 2.21 release plans)

Federico Bruni-3
Il giorno gio 20 feb 2020 alle 14:06, David Kastrup <[hidden email]> ha
scritto:
> In unrelated news, I tried my hand at translating at least the Changes
> file into German and am about 50% done.  Anybody want to work from the
> bottom so that we should coordinate in order to avoid duplicate
> effort?
> I got kind of a headache so far.  Hats off to people who tackle a
> whole
> translation rather than just a puny file.

Indeed, it requires a strong commitment... it took me almost 10 years
to translate all the manuals!

Translation infrastructure is another area which could be improved.
After 2.20 is out I'll try to bring it up for discussion.





Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 2.20.0 release coordination with translation, also Germans?

David Kastrup
Federico Bruni <[hidden email]> writes:

> Il giorno gio 20 feb 2020 alle 14:06, David Kastrup <[hidden email]> ha
> scritto:
>> In unrelated news, I tried my hand at translating at least the Changes
>> file into German and am about 50% done.  Anybody want to work from the
>> bottom so that we should coordinate in order to avoid duplicate
>> effort?
>> I got kind of a headache so far.  Hats off to people who tackle a
>> whole
>> translation rather than just a puny file.
>
> Indeed, it requires a strong commitment... it took me almost 10 years
> to translate all the manuals!
>
> Translation infrastructure is another area which could be improved.
> After 2.20 is out I'll try to bring it up for discussion.

I could not actually get any script to do anything helpful.  I remember
this being different at some point of time in the past.

--
David Kastrup


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 2.20.0 release coordination with translation, also Germans?

Federico Bruni-3
Il giorno gio 20 feb 2020 alle 15:21, David Kastrup <[hidden email]> ha
scritto:
> I could not actually get any script to do anything helpful.  I
> remember
> this being different at some point of time in the past.

I use `make check-translation` regularly and has always worked.
But you should be aware that:

1. you must run it in the Documentation/ dir
2. if you've configured an out-of-tree build (very likely as you are a
developer), you'll probably get problems. So I think you should
download the translation branch in a separate clean directory.





Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

2.20.0 release coordination with translation. Other showstoppers? (was: 2.20.0 release coordination with translation, also Germans?)

David Kastrup
In reply to this post by David Kastrup
David Kastrup <[hidden email]> writes:

> Federico Bruni <[hidden email]> writes:
>
>> Il giorno lun 17 feb 2020 alle 22:49, Federico Bruni
>> <[hidden email]> ha scritto:
>
>>> I'm working on the italian update and I hope to be ready before
>>> Thursday night.
>>>
>>
>> Can we have one day delay? So deadline to push to translation branch
>> by Friday night?
>> I guess I won't have enough time to complete the update but at least I
>> can use some spare time tomorrow to get close to the goal.
>
> There was no fixed deadline.  My goal was "this weekend", but if that
> makes things ugly, there is no point in not delaying some more days
> after the years we spent on this.
>
> In unrelated news, I tried my hand at translating at least the Changes
> file into German and am about 50% done.  Anybody want to work from the
> bottom so that we should coordinate in order to avoid duplicate effort?
> I got kind of a headache so far.  Hats off to people who tackle a whole
> translation rather than just a puny file.

German Changes file has been added by now.  Where are we with regard to
the other translations?  Federico?

The plan for afterwards would generally be that we
merge/move/cherrypick/whatever translations into master without
introducing unintended regressions.  I may try doing that as I am
probably most at fault for the long 2.19.80+ phase.  For changes to doc
and translation afterwards, it will make sense to check individually
whether they can/should also go by cherry-picking into the stable branch
for the sake of possible 2.20 followup releases.  The main criterion
obviously being whether they refer to functionality actually present in
2.20.

So there is a bit of leeway for improvements in the 2.20 documentation
even after the 2.20.0 line.

--
David Kastrup


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 2.20.0 release coordination with translation. Other showstoppers? (was: 2.20.0 release coordination with translation, also Germans?)

Federico Bruni-3
Il giorno sab 22 feb 2020 alle 19:25, David Kastrup <[hidden email]> ha
scritto:
> German Changes file has been added by now.  Where are we with regard
> to
> the other translations?  Federico?

I'm still working on it.
My spare time is limited and the changes by Werner requires a lot of
meticulous edits.

If you want to release tomorrow, let me know and I'll push tonight what
I manage to do. Then the rest of the update might be included in 2.20.2.
Or, if you prefer waiting for the whole italian update, I will advise
when I've completed it. I cannot say now how long it will take exactly.
Probably not before tomorrow night.





Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 2.20.0 release coordination with translation. Other showstoppers?

David Kastrup
Federico Bruni <[hidden email]> writes:

> Il giorno sab 22 feb 2020 alle 19:25, David Kastrup <[hidden email]> ha
> scritto:
>> German Changes file has been added by now.  Where are we with regard
>> to
>> the other translations?  Federico?
>
> I'm still working on it.
> My spare time is limited and the changes by Werner requires a lot of
> meticulous edits.
>
> If you want to release tomorrow, let me know and I'll push tonight
> what I manage to do. Then the rest of the update might be included in
> 2.20.2.
> Or, if you prefer waiting for the whole italian update, I will advise
> when I've completed it. I cannot say now how long it will take
> exactly. Probably not before tomorrow night.

My principle plan would be to tell Phil to go ahead (after receiving the
last OK from people doing last-minute work) at a point of time where he
thinks he may be somewhat responsive in the followup days, just in case
something hits the fan.

One interesting consideration is that the VERSION file upon release
should look like

PACKAGE_NAME=LilyPond
MAJOR_VERSION=2
MINOR_VERSION=20
PATCH_LEVEL=0
MY_PATCH_LEVEL=
VERSION_STABLE=2.20.0
VERSION_DEVEL=2.20.0

basically announcing the same versions as stable and unstable since
2.20.0 will both be the latest stable release as well as the latest
release altogether.  Things will normalise once we get a followup
unstable release.

I seem to remember that if we declared VERSION_DEVEL to point to a yet
unreleased 2.21.0, the links would essentially end up dead.

So there are little quirks like that accompanying a stable release that
might cause followup work.  So "last day of weekend" sounds only
sensible if Phil is not considerably unavailable afterwards.

--
David Kastrup
My replies have a tendency to cause friction.  To help mitigating
damage, feel free to forward problematic posts to me adding a subject
like "timeout 1d" (for a suggested timeout of 1 day) or "offensive".


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 2.20.0 release coordination with translation. Other showstoppers?

Federico Bruni-3
Il giorno sab 22 feb 2020 alle 23:54, David Kastrup <[hidden email]> ha
scritto:
> My principle plan would be to tell Phil to go ahead (after receiving
> the
> last OK from people doing last-minute work) at a point of time where
> he
> thinks he may be somewhat responsive in the followup days, just in
> case
> something hits the fan.

Ok, then I pushed to translation branch my work so far.
I guess I'll push the final update on Monday.





Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 2.20.0 release coordination with translation, also Germans?

Francisco Vila
In reply to this post by David Kastrup
El 20/2/20 a las 14:06, David Kastrup escribió:
> In unrelated news, I tried my hand at translating at least the Changes
> file into German and am about 50% done.

One day I stopped translating Changes and now the link is broken because
changes/index.html exists but changes/index.es.html does not. I plan to
fix it ASAP.

--
Francisco Vila, Ph.D. - Badajoz (Spain)
paconet.org , lilypond.es


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 2.20.0 release coordination with translation. Other showstoppers?

David Kastrup
In reply to this post by David Kastrup
"Phil Holmes" <[hidden email]> writes:

> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Kastrup" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Federico Bruni" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>; "Phil
> Holmes" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2020 10:54 PM
> Subject: Re: 2.20.0 release coordination with translation. Other
> showstoppers?
>>
>> One interesting consideration is that the VERSION file upon release
>> should look like
>>
>> PACKAGE_NAME=LilyPond
>> MAJOR_VERSION=2
>> MINOR_VERSION=20
>> PATCH_LEVEL=0
>> MY_PATCH_LEVEL=
>> VERSION_STABLE=2.20.0
>> VERSION_DEVEL=2.20.0
>>
>> basically announcing the same versions as stable and unstable since
>> 2.20.0 will both be the latest stable release as well as the latest
>> release altogether.  Things will normalise once we get a followup
>> unstable release.
>>
>> I seem to remember that if we declared VERSION_DEVEL to point to a yet
>> unreleased 2.21.0, the links would essentially end up dead.
>>
>> So there are little quirks like that accompanying a stable release that
>> might cause followup work.  So "last day of weekend" sounds only
>> sensible if Phil is not considerably unavailable afterwards.
>>
>> -- David Kastrup
>> My replies have a tendency to cause friction.  To help mitigating
>> damage, feel free to forward problematic posts to me adding a subject
>> like "timeout 1d" (for a suggested timeout of 1 day) or "offensive".
>
>
> I am generally available for the next few weeks.  I would think it
> better to wait a few days to get the translations stable, since it
> will take me a little while to get my head round what's needed for a
> new stable release.
>
> I think that VERSION_DEVEL will need to be 2.19.84 for this release,
> otherwise we won't have any links to "development" documentation.

But it doesn't make sense to point VERSION_DEVEL to documentation that
is actually older than that of 2.20, does it?

I do not really know what is correct here with respect to our
semi-automatic webpage update mechanism.  I just remember that we had
problems last time round.

--
David Kastrup


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 2.20.0 release coordination with translation. Other showstoppers?

David Kastrup
"Phil Holmes" <[hidden email]> writes:

>>
>> But it doesn't make sense to point VERSION_DEVEL to documentation that
>> is actually older than that of 2.20, does it?
>>
>> I do not really know what is correct here with respect to our
>> semi-automatic webpage update mechanism.  I just remember that we had
>> problems last time round.
>>
>> -- David Kastrup
>
>
> I think it needs to point to documentation that actually exists, since
> we won't be building for the development version.  There's no reason
> not to launch a 2.21 fairly soon afterwards, and the problem you're
> citing would then go away.

The 2.21 release depends on merging the translation work back in.  I
probably should start with that already: we don't have many outstanding
contributions there I guess.

Too bad I never understood how git-rerere is supposed to work.

On 2.21.0 the documentation translations will be outdated.  That is
expected.  But they need to compile anyway.

--
David Kastrup