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German

Henning Hraban Ramm
Hi there,
I talked with David and Urs and they suggested I could enhance and update the German translation of the docs/website.

Anyone still working on it, or can I just start away?
Any hints? Anyone who wants to be my meister?

I already installed LilyDev, am familiar with gettext and several scripting/markup languages, but not texinfo yet.


Greetlings, Hraban
---
fiëé visuëlle
Henning Hraban Ramm
http://www.fiee.net
http://angerweit.tikon.ch/lieder/
https://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)






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Re: German

Federico Bruni-2
2013/12/7 Henning Hraban Ramm <[hidden email]>
Hi there,
I talked with David and Urs and they suggested I could enhance and update the German translation of the docs/website.

Anyone still working on it, or can I just start away?
Any hints? Anyone who wants to be my meister?

I already installed LilyDev, am familiar with gettext and several scripting/markup languages, but not texinfo yet.

Hi Hraban

I'm glad to help you.
We are not using gettext for the documentation/website, except for a few things (which are already translated in german).

Have you already read the documentation?

Let me know when you  find any problem, it might also a good change to improve the documentation.
The contributor guide contains a lot of information, spread in several parts. It might seem difficult in the beginning (depending on your experience).
Few months ago I started writing a simple tutorial for new translators, but then I stopped because I thought it would have not been useful to anyone. I may finish it,  in case you need it.

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Re: German

Henning Hraban Ramm

Am 2013-12-07 um 15:23 schrieb Federico Bruni <[hidden email]>:

> 2013/12/7 Henning Hraban Ramm <[hidden email]>
>> Hi there,
>> I talked with David and Urs and they suggested I could enhance and update the German translation of the docs/website.
>>
>> Anyone still working on it, or can I just start away?
>> Any hints? Anyone who wants to be my meister?
>>
>> I already installed LilyDev, am familiar with gettext and several scripting/markup languages, but not texinfo yet.
>>
> Hi Hraban
>
> I'm glad to help you.
> We are not using gettext for the documentation/website, except for a few things (which are already translated in german).
>
> Have you already read the documentation?
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/contributor/translating-the-documentation
>
> Let me know when you  find any problem, it might also a good change to improve the documentation.
> The contributor guide contains a lot of information, spread in several parts. It might seem difficult in the beginning (depending on your experience).
> Few months ago I started writing a simple tutorial for new translators, but then I stopped because I thought it would have not been useful to anyone. I may finish it,  in case you need it.
>

Hi Federico,
yes, I’m reading the docs, the CG is indeed not that easy to read, but I’m used to worse.

The LilyDev install docs are missing the „upgrading Linux“ part, e.g. the request to install cyrillic fonts for TeX might ask too much from a usual Windows or Mac user. And I’d appreciate a hint about which IDE to use (I don’t believe in the church of Emacs), in my case: which editor supports translations in any way, and can help with texinfo?

Since the doc diff is rather big, I’d appreciate a hint where to start - just go after the priority list?
Perhaps just send me your unfinished guide ;-)

Greetlings, Hraban

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Re: German

David Kastrup
Henning Hraban Ramm <[hidden email]> writes:

> The LilyDev install docs are missing the „upgrading Linux“ part,
> e.g. the request to install cyrillic fonts for TeX might ask too much
> from a usual Windows or Mac user. And I’d appreciate a hint about
> which IDE to use (I don’t believe in the church of Emacs), in my case:
> which editor supports translations in any way, and can help with
> texinfo?

Well, Emacs plus AUCTeX is definitely a combination not to dismiss
easily when working on Texinfo files: Texinfo is the documentation
format for the GNU project, and Emacs is its chosen editor.

One result of that is that the source highlighting, indentation,
wrapping, input support (particularly when using AUCTeX) is good (and
the LilyPond formatting defaults are set with directory-wide variables).
Not extraordinary, but good.

By far the best way to read LilyPond's documentation is doing "make
info" (which builds info including images) and "sudo make install-info",
and then using Emacs as an info reader.  It beats the pants off forwards
and backwards of reading the info files on a browser (response
everywhere is instantaneous and you have keyboard navigation), and I
know no standalone reader dealing sensibly with image inclusion (Yelp
does support images, but the shere number of them in LilyPond
documentation made it lock up last time I tried it).  Emacs info is much
faster, and has _lots_ of navigation features including one-key access
to the indices with auto-completion.



LilyPond-mode is ok but no reason to switch.

I probably should see whether I manage to get to the state where one can
compile single files from our documentation with included LilyPond files
from within Emacs: that would tilt the balance seriously.  As it stands
now, LilyPond documentation can really only be compiled using "make"
(which is sufficient for proofreading without the images) and "make
info", and of course, that is basically independent of editor support.

> Since the doc diff is rather big, I’d appreciate a hint where to start
> - just go after the priority list?
> Perhaps just send me your unfinished guide ;-)

That may be an idea.

--
David Kastrup

info.png (23K) Download Attachment
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Re: German

Jean-Charles MALAHIEUDE
Le 07/12/2013 12:01, David Kastrup disait :

> Henning Hraban Ramm <[hidden email]> writes:
>
>> The LilyDev install docs are missing the „upgrading Linux“ part,
>> e.g. the request to install cyrillic fonts for TeX might ask too much
>> from a usual Windows or Mac user. And I’d appreciate a hint about
>> which IDE to use (I don’t believe in the church of Emacs), in my case:
>> which editor supports translations in any way, and can help with
>> texinfo?
>
> Well, Emacs plus AUCTeX is definitely a combination not to dismiss
> easily when working on Texinfo files: Texinfo is the documentation
> format for the GNU project, and Emacs is its chosen editor.
>
> One result of that is that the source highlighting, indentation,
> wrapping, input support (particularly when using AUCTeX) is good (and
> the LilyPond formatting defaults are set with directory-wide variables).
> Not extraordinary, but good.
>

+1

> By far the best way to read LilyPond's documentation is doing "make
> info" (which builds info including images) and "sudo make install-info",
> and then using Emacs as an info reader.  […]
>

Only available in English.

>
>> Since the doc diff is rather big, I’d appreciate a hint where to start
>> - just go after the priority list?

The result of
  cd Documentation
  make ISOLANG=de NO_COLOR=1 check-translation > ../../chktrans

includes all the snippets as well. What I usually do is extract the
corresponding lines in another file and deal with them separately.


Cheers,
Jean-Charles



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Re: German

David Kastrup
Jean-Charles Malahieude <[hidden email]> writes:

> Le 07/12/2013 12:01, David Kastrup disait :
>> Henning Hraban Ramm <[hidden email]> writes:
>>
>>> The LilyDev install docs are missing the „upgrading Linux“ part,
>>> e.g. the request to install cyrillic fonts for TeX might ask too much
>>> from a usual Windows or Mac user. And I’d appreciate a hint about
>>> which IDE to use (I don’t believe in the church of Emacs), in my case:
>>> which editor supports translations in any way, and can help with
>>> texinfo?
>>
>> Well, Emacs plus AUCTeX is definitely a combination not to dismiss
>> easily when working on Texinfo files: Texinfo is the documentation
>> format for the GNU project, and Emacs is its chosen editor.
>>
>> One result of that is that the source highlighting, indentation,
>> wrapping, input support (particularly when using AUCTeX) is good (and
>> the LilyPond formatting defaults are set with directory-wide variables).
>> Not extraordinary, but good.
>>
>
> +1
>
>> By far the best way to read LilyPond's documentation is doing "make
>> info" (which builds info including images) and "sudo make install-info",
>> and then using Emacs as an info reader.  […]
>>
>
> Only available in English.

Huh, didn't think of that.  I wonder why that is, but it makes
proofreading info translations indeed harder when there are no
translations.

--
David Kastrup


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Re: German

Francisco Vila
In reply to this post by Henning Hraban Ramm


El 07/12/2013 10:11, "Henning Hraban Ramm" <[hidden email]> escribió:
And I’d appreciate a hint about which IDE to use (I don’t believe in the church of Emacs),

You can use emacs and keep your soul safe. You could translate texinfo docs using emacs and use anything else for the rest.

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Re: German

Federico Bruni-2
In reply to this post by Henning Hraban Ramm
2013/12/7 Henning Hraban Ramm <[hidden email]>
Hi Federico,
yes, I’m reading the docs, the CG is indeed not that easy to read, but I’m used to worse.

The LilyDev install docs are missing the „upgrading Linux“ part, e.g. the request to install cyrillic fonts for TeX might ask too much from a usual Windows or Mac user.

This will be fixed in the next version of LilyDev:


And I’d appreciate a hint about which IDE to use (I don’t believe in the church of Emacs), in my case: which editor supports translations in any way, and can help with texinfo?


You can use a plain text editor, like gedit (which has syntax highlight for texinfo).
When you translate, you don't have to play much with texinfo syntax.
 
Since the doc diff is rather big, I’d appreciate a hint where to start - just go after the priority list?

yes
or update first website, learning and usage
and leave the notation reference at the end (it will take time...)
 
Perhaps just send me your unfinished guide ;-)

I've just finished it, hope that helps!


lilypond-translation-guide.en.html (24K) Download Attachment
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Re: German

Till Paala
Hi Henning,

sorry I didn't react on that fast enough! Great if you would do something for the translation. I just don't find the time to get started with updating.
Maybe some things to explain: I never really managed to get the snippets registered properly to git so I also never checked if there were changes. That's why all translated snippets show up in the log. Just ignore them for the moment and go ahead with the rest. If I will find some translation time on the Christmas holidays, I will ask you about your state of progress.
I send you two text files in which I have collected translation hints for certain problematic expressions. Actually the files should be merged, but there has always been more pressing work to do.

And actually I used only Gedit on Ubuntu to do the translation work, I was OK with the syntax highlighting for Texinfo.

If you have some specific questions just write an email!

Greetings
Till


Am 08.12.13 10:42, schrieb Federico Bruni:
2013/12/7 Henning Hraban Ramm <[hidden email]>
Hi Federico,
yes, I’m reading the docs, the CG is indeed not that easy to read, but I’m used to worse.

The LilyDev install docs are missing the „upgrading Linux“ part, e.g. the request to install cyrillic fonts for TeX might ask too much from a usual Windows or Mac user.

This will be fixed in the next version of LilyDev:


And I’d appreciate a hint about which IDE to use (I don’t believe in the church of Emacs), in my case: which editor supports translations in any way, and can help with texinfo?


You can use a plain text editor, like gedit (which has syntax highlight for texinfo).
When you translate, you don't have to play much with texinfo syntax.
 
Since the doc diff is rather big, I’d appreciate a hint where to start - just go after the priority list?

yes
or update first website, learning and usage
and leave the notation reference at the end (it will take time...)
 
Perhaps just send me your unfinished guide ;-)

I've just finished it, hope that helps!



Glossar-deu-utf8.txt (2K) Download Attachment
Glossar-Lilypond-ende.txt (8K) Download Attachment
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Re: German

Henning Hraban Ramm

Am 2013-12-14 um 20:12 schrieb Till Paala <[hidden email]>:

> Hi Henning,
>
> sorry I didn't react on that fast enough! Great if you would do something for the translation. I just don't find the time to get started with updating.
> Maybe some things to explain: I never really managed to get the snippets registered properly to git so I also never checked if there were changes. That's why all translated snippets show up in the log. Just ignore them for the moment and go ahead with the rest. If I will find some translation time on the Christmas holidays, I will ask you about your state of progress.

I can start probably not before mid of january - still too much to do before the holidays.
I.e. I had a look on the first file that was prompted to me, the essay, and reworded some paragraphs - judging from that and my expectations in myself, it’ll become a lot of work. Anyway, I’ll see what I can do.

> I send you two text files in which I have collected translation hints for certain problematic expressions. Actually the files should be merged, but there has always been more pressing work to do.

Thank you, I’ll look into them.

> And actually I used only Gedit on Ubuntu to do the translation work, I was OK with the syntax highlighting for Texinfo.

Ok, I just thought there might be a better environment, e.g. for seeing original and translation side by side and scrolling synchronously.
I get something similar in looking at the online docs in my browser while working in the virtual machine beside it.

> If you have some specific questions just write an email!

Will do. Thank you!

Greetlings, Hraban