Re: [LilyPond Translations] important infrastructure changes

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
8 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [LilyPond Translations] important infrastructure changes

John Mandereau
Le mardi 04 août 2009 à 21:46 +0900, Yoshiki Sawada a écrit :
> Hello, John and the translators.
> Long time no see.
>
>         First, let me inform you on the documentation, which is
>         important in
>         case you couldn't follow heavy traffic on -devel list.
>
> Thank you for your information.
> It is a good time for me to come back to LilyPond community.

Sure, even if the docs and web site infrastructure is not stabilized
right now — I strive to do it in two or three weeks.  I'll keep you
noticed on the new [hidden email] list created by Valentin. By
the way, you can subscribe it by sending an empty mail with subject
"subscribe" to [hidden email].


> A part of the documentation which I translated has been already
> out-of-date.  I will check and revise it. In fact, I started to work
> on Learning Manual.
> When I have finished checking LM, I will make a patch for it and
> inform you.
> But it may take long time because its volume is very big and I do not
> have much time to do it.

As Till has not much time either, I will make check-translation (and
translation-status BTW) print diffs that take file renames into account.

Best regards,
John Mandereau

signature.asc (204 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [LilyPond Translations] important infrastructure changes

Till Paala
Hi John!


John Mandereau schrieb:
Le lundi 03 août 2009 à 21:49 +0300, Till Paala a écrit :
  
I didn't find any important changes except the texidocs, which is btw a 
great idea. Hope I didn't miss anything, anyhow the translation of node 
names in the source will come only later on?
    

No, I've done it too.

  
Oh sorry, I hadn't read the most recent version, I just recovered that everything about translating node names has been written. It seems clear to me

I guess we need the documentation po file still to do translation of strings inside of snippets like variable names and comments.


BTW except recent updates all files of the German LM NR AU are now translated. I guess this will show the first time on 2.13.4, it is accessible already on Kainhofer. Should I translate the news-file (somehow I don't consider it so important, but I can translate it if it serves anybody)

If it's something uncommitted in yout working tree, use 'git stash'.
If it's a merge conflict, undo the merging attempt, do

git config --global merge.renameLimit 2000

then try pulling again.
If it's a conflict in a patch to apply, look for recent emails from
Johannes on this list.
  
Thanks this advice worked really well, only two minor conflicts. I pushed my recent changes (from June 3rd) so everything seems well. On the other hand I have one month of severe changes to integrate.

I noticed that Carl put (some of?) his documentation texts about the beaming rules in English into the German rhythm.itely -- I don't know if this was by accident or on purpose and how other developers do. I havn't touched the file yet, but I guess I can just go ahead translating what he put there. In fact it is kind of helping we for sure, while on the other hand if everybody does it it might be really hard to find the additions quickly...

Total check of the documentation is not possible at the 
moment, I don't have the time for that.
    

OK, I'll look at doing it after having integrated the web site.
  
I guess I will wait for that.
I guess you did all the reaorganization 
work for the fr/es/de directories?
    

Yes I did, otherwise check-translation and language menus at the bottom
of each HTML page would be even more broken.

  
Thanks! Indeed otherwise at least German would be totally broken...
BTW where do you translate the "Back to the Documentation index" of the 
web-docs? I remember that was an issue with the japanese translation... 
now I just realized that it is in English also in the German translations
    

IIRC it's translated in lilypond-texi2html.init. Which HTML page and in
which build do you see this text untranslated?
  
It's translated there but on Kainhofer it is not... Might be the bug on this site.

Greetings
Till

PS. does this new translator's list also have an open archive?

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [LilyPond Translations] important infrastructure changes

John Mandereau
Hi Till,
Le samedi 08 août 2009 à 01:13 +0300, Till Paala a écrit :
> Oh sorry, I hadn't read the most recent version, I just recovered that
> everything about translating node names has been written. It seems
> clear to me

I didn't mention that it's possible not to translate cross-references to
untranslated nodes, in this case you don't have to define empty nodes.
You can even decide to translate only a part of the cross-references to
untranslated nodes, but then this is up to you to manage this mess.  By
thr way, check-xrefs and fix-xrefs targets are currently broken for
translations, I'll look at fix the script ASAP.



> I guess we need the documentation po file still to do translation of
> strings inside of snippets like variable names and comments.

Yes, the PO file will continue to exist.


> BTW except recent updates all files of the German LM NR AU are now
> translated. I guess this will show the first time on 2.13.4, it is
> accessible already on Kainhofer. Should I translate the news-file
> (somehow I don't consider it so important, but I can translate it if
> it serves anybody)

This is up to your judgement; if you want to do so, the makefiles
already support it.  There are lots to do on English docs too, which you
might consider contributing to depending on your interest.


> I noticed that Carl put (some of?) his documentation texts about the
> beaming rules in English into the German rhythm.itely -- I don't know
> if this was by accident or on purpose and how other developers do. I
> havn't touched the file yet, but I guess I can just go ahead
> translating what he put there. In fact it is kind of helping we for
> sure, while on the other hand if everybody does it it might be really
> hard to find the additions quickly...

He did that once, but as Francisco pointed this is not needed thanks to
check-translation, and it might disturb some readers, so we decided not
to do it any more.

 
> It's translated there but on Kainhofer it is not... Might be the bug
> on this site.

I don't know, maybe this is another bug caused by changes in recent
Texi2THML; I still have Texinfo 1.82 on my machine, I'll update it from
CVS.


> PS. does this new translator's list also have an open archive?

Yes, thanks to Nabble: http://lists.lilynet.net/translations/

Best,
John

signature.asc (204 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [LilyPond Translations] important infrastructure changes

Till Paala
John Mandereau schrieb:
Hi Till,
Le samedi 08 août 2009 à 01:13 +0300, Till Paala a écrit :
  
Oh sorry, I hadn't read the most recent version, I just recovered that
everything about translating node names has been written. It seems
clear to me
    

I didn't mention that it's possible not to translate cross-references to
untranslated nodes, in this case you don't have to define empty nodes.
You can even decide to translate only a part of the cross-references to
untranslated nodes, but then this is up to you to manage this mess.  By
thr way, check-xrefs and fix-xrefs targets are currently broken for
translations, I'll look at fix the script ASAP.
  
Ok, I think this might easily end up in a mess. Now I changed the translation of a nodename in rhythms. itely but I don't know where it  has been referenced from so there might be something broken. Hmm. Almost feels as if the old system was better :-)

Two more things: I did updates for rhythms.itely but this doesn't trigger a new built, as it would have earlier. In fact I was in Documentation/de, because I can't get the whole bunch built on lilypond/translation branch: it just hangs when texi2html processes the learning.texi for Japanese. Don't know if this is a problem of my version (1.80) or of some changes in this document. It worked last night on master branch, though. Did a clean rebuilt today and that didn't solve the problem.

Greetings
Till

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [LilyPond Translations] important infrastructure changes

John Mandereau
Le dimanche 09 août 2009 à 00:47 +0300, Till Paala a écrit :
> Ok, I think this might easily end up in a mess. Now I changed the
> translation of a nodename in rhythms. itely but I don't know where it
> has been referenced from so there might be something broken.

"make fix-xrefs" should normally take care of this, but it is broken,
and as I'm visiting my family, I'm less reactive until Thursday.  In the
meantime, update Texinfo menu using Emacs well-known macro C-c C-u C-a,
then do

cd Documentation/de
grep -n "@ref{Node name" {notation,application,learning}/*.ite??

As node names can be croken across lines in cross-references, it's safer
to grep with only the first word of the node name.


>  Hmm. Almost feels as if the old system was better :-)

No, it was broken by design: it break each time HTML output format is
modified, and I remember Francisco reported a bug I couldn't solve with
the old system.  And we were several translators who found quite
alienating to translate titles and node names outside the source file...
although there are far more alienating translations sytems, e.g.
line-by-line translation of long documents using PO.


> Two more things: I did updates for rhythms.itely but this doesn't
> trigger a new built, as it would have earlier.

This is a known problem, I'll try to fix it properly, i.e. not as soon
as possible :-P


> In fact I was in Documentation/de, because I can't get the whole bunch
> built on lilypond/translation branch: it just hangs when texi2html
> processes the learning.texi for Japanese. Don't know if this is a
> problem of my version (1.80) or of some changes in this document.

1.82 is recommended.


>  It worked last night on master branch, though. Did a clean rebuilt
> today and that didn't solve the problem.

Can you report the error to us?

John

signature.asc (204 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [LilyPond Translations] important infrastructure changes

Till Paala
John Mandereau schrieb:
 Hmm. Almost feels as if the old system was better :-)
    

No, it was broken by design: it break each time HTML output format is
modified, and I remember Francisco reported a bug I couldn't solve with
the old system.  And we were several translators who found quite
alienating to translate titles and node names outside the source file...
although there are far more alienating translations sytems, e.g.
line-by-line translation of long documents using PO.
  
Indeed, that sucks, as some multi-line comments from the included snippets show -- they are represented line by line in the .po file.
Two more things: I did updates for rhythms.itely but this doesn't
trigger a new built, as it would have earlier.
    

This is a known problem, I'll try to fix it properly, i.e. not as soon
as possible :-P

  
Ok, I will just hope that my patches are correct, and push without compiling if I don't find the time for a total clean compilation (which takes here 3 hours)
  
In fact I was in Documentation/de, because I can't get the whole bunch
built on lilypond/translation branch: it just hangs when texi2html
processes the learning.texi for Japanese. Don't know if this is a
problem of my version (1.80) or of some changes in this document.
    

1.82 is recommended.
  
Ok, I will see if updating this helps.

  
 It worked last night on master branch, though. Did a clean rebuilt
today and that didn't solve the problem.
    

Can you report the error to us?
  
The error is, that I get a hang-up: Compiling normally until it gets to the japanes LM, here is just hangs processor at 100%, I waited about one hour, I don't know what is going, stopped compiling with ctrl+c. As it is just hanging not failing there are no messages.

Till
John
  

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [LilyPond Translations] important infrastructure changes

Till Paala
In reply to this post by John Mandereau
John Mandereau schrieb:
1.82 is recommended.
  
ok, fetched and installed 1.84

  
 It worked last night on master branch, though. Did a clean rebuilt
today and that didn't solve the problem.
    

Can you report the error to us?
  
Now it proceeds and there are this kind of warnings:

out-www//learning/introduction.texi:571: warning: @seealso defined with 0 arguments should be invoked with {}

Let's see if it finishes the compilation.

Till
John
  

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [LilyPond Translations] important infrastructure changes

John Mandereau
In reply to this post by Till Paala
Le dimanche 09 août 2009 à 22:18 +0300, Till Paala a écrit :
> Indeed, that sucks, as some multi-line comments from the included
> snippets show -- they are represented line by line in the .po file.

Oh yes, I should fix this, but not immediately :-(  Speaking of
bugfixes, please run check-translation again, it should handle every
recent file renames, as long as you have moved translated files too
(e.g. most of introduction.itely went into essay/).


> Ok, I will just hope that my patches are correct, and push without
> compiling if I don't find the time for a total clean compilation
> (which takes here 3 hours)

Unclean builds work if you touch .tely files.


> Ok, I will see if updating this helps.

Your report below makes me think so.


> The error is, that I get a hang-up: Compiling normally until it gets
> to the japanes LM, here is just hangs processor at 100%, I waited
> about one hour, I don't know what is going, stopped compiling with
> ctrl+c. As it is just hanging not failing there are no messages.

I already got this kind of issue, IIRC I fixed it by upgrading
texi2html.

Best,
John

signature.asc (204 bytes) Download Attachment
Loading...