new Italian Translation: which version of the doc?

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new Italian Translation: which version of the doc?

Federico Bruni
Hi,


When I started working on the translation of the doc into italian
(around June), I was suggested by John to start with 2.12, as Graham
was updating the website documentation.

So far, I've completed the first 3 chapters of LM.. and I'm waiting a
friend to proofread chapter 2 and 3.
Yesterday I have started translating chapter 4..

... and I was thinking: should I go on with 2.12 doc? or move to 2.13?
I think I was told the first 3 chapters of LM have been almost
untouched since a long time, right?
So it wouldn't be a big deal to transfer what I've done so far in the
web branch..
Is this ready for translations?
What do you suggest me to do?

I'm more motivated to work on a new documentation: because it's new,
obviously; also, because I'm using the development version.
Anyway, I'll do what is better for LilyPond :-)

Cheers,
Federico



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Re: new Italian Translation: which version of the doc?

Valentin Villenave
Administrator
On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Federico Bruni <[hidden email]> wrote:
> What do you suggest me to do?

Wait for John to get his Internet access back :)

That should take him several days, but in the meantime you can
certainly work on 2.12.

Cheers,
Valentin


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Re: new Italian Translation: which version of the doc?

Francisco Vila
In reply to this post by Federico Bruni
2009/10/1 Federico Bruni <[hidden email]>:
> What do you suggest me to do?

I suggest you to wait. Moving 2.12 translated sections to whatever
they've gone to 2.13 is going to be a nightmare for you, as Till and
me myself are experiencing. Unless you are willing to do the whole
work twice.

Or, you could translate 2.13 as it is right now, and track on a daily
basis the changes to these files checking the makecheck script output.
 Try for all means to translate a complete file on a single session,
otherwise your neurones could melt if changes are made to it in the
meantime.

--
Francisco Vila. Badajoz (Spain)
www.paconet.org
www.csmbadajoz.com


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Re: new Italian Translation: which version of the doc?

John Mandereau
In reply to this post by Federico Bruni
Dear Federico, dear all translators,

I'm much glad by hearing news on LilyPond italian translation!  More
details inline below, sorry for the little delayed reply.  This thread
is also a good opportunity to discuss of the translation priorities for
all languages.

Le jeudi 01 octobre 2009 à 20:33 +0200, Federico Bruni a écrit :
> So far, I've completed the first 3 chapters of LM.. and I'm waiting a
> friend to proofread chapter 2 and 3.

I hope you haven't translated the Introduction of 2.12 LM as I advised
you in early August, because both the essay it contains and the
introduction to the documentation have been recently overhauled in
development branch.  The tutorial has been splitted in two parts and
updated a little in dev branch, but these ones are easy and quick to
update in the translations.


> Yesterday I have started translating chapter 4..

Going on with translating chapter 4 is a good thing, because it's only
changed a little in development branch since 2.12.0.  However, you
shouldn't go on translating chapter 4 of 2.12 version up to completion
in case 2.14 is released in less than 2 months, so you have enough time
to update the traduction with changes in 2.13 branches before this
branch is released as the new stable branch 2.14.0  — Graham, do you
plan 2.14 for Xmas or later, or sooner?


> So it wouldn't be a big deal to transfer what I've done so far in the
> web branch..

I hope you didn't work on web branch, which contains the old web site.


> Is this ready for translations?

What do you mean by "this"?  The new website?  Well, err, I've started
working switching the build system for the documentation, but was busy
with academic work and moving to Pisa recently, so I'm sorry there's
still no decent support for translating the new web site.  That doesn't
mean translators can't start translating it, but to make it possible we
should at least make sure which parts of the new web site are stabilized
enough so these parts could be marked with highest priority for
translators.


> What do you suggest me to do?

1) When files marked with priority 1 in the CG and chapters 2 and 3 of
LM are ready to be published, send me them in a big patch or patchset.
2) I hope there will be one 2.12 release after yout work has been
committed, so there will be a docs translation in Italian widely
available to users.
3) I'll do some black magic (homebrewed scripts, text substitutions,
moving files) to update your work to 2.13 format.
4) Then you'll be able to start updating your work with changes in 2.13
docs.

How do you feel with this plan?

Best,
John

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Re: new Italian Translation: which version of the doc?

John Mandereau
Le vendredi 09 octobre 2009 à 19:28 +0100, Graham Percival a écrit :
> Actually, as far as I know that's already working.  Jan translated
> one or two pages into Dutch to test it.  I'm not certain if the
> translation gets the second-layer TOC colors, though.

Worse than the TOC colors, in current master branch, the translated web
site drafts don't live at the top of Documentation/, it's currently in
general/, unlike the web site in English.



> Of course, my first instinct is to say that the website isn't
> ready for translation (in terms of content, not technical stuff).
> OTOH, I doubt that anybody will touch the content in the next few
> months, so I guess the translations might as well start.

I guess this means translations may start as soon as the technical
infrastrucure is ready.


> You're translating stuff in the CG?  I'm not sure it's worth it.
> I mean, any translator (who might want to read the translation
> docs) should be able to read enough English to understand them...?

Does this make the right sense if I write instead "When files marked in
the CG with priority 1"?  I mean, there is a files priority list for
translators in the CG.


> I'm planning one 2.12 release.  I was going to do that sometime
> next week, but I can delay that if want.

If making an extra 2.12 release after the one you initially planned
takes much time and effort, this would be nicer for Federico and his
translation mate to delay the 2.12 release, so their initial translation
work is widely available, at the condition we integrate the translation
within about 2 weeks (replace this duration by any reasonable duration
you estimate).

Best,
John

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Re: new Italian Translation: which version of the doc?

Federico Bruni
In reply to this post by John Mandereau
John Mandereau wrote:

>
> Le jeudi 01 octobre 2009 à 20:33 +0200, Federico Bruni a écrit :
>> So far, I've completed the first 3 chapters of LM.. and I'm waiting a
>> friend to proofread chapter 2 and 3.
>
> I hope you haven't translated the Introduction of 2.12 LM as I advised
> you in early August, because both the essay it contains and the
> introduction to the documentation have been recently overhauled in
> development branch.  The tutorial has been splitted in two parts and
> updated a little in dev branch, but these ones are easy and quick to
> update in the translations.
>

Yes, Introduction was the first part I translated (in June).
But it's not a problem at all..

When I have to upgrade the translation to 2.13, I'll just need some
tips about how to see the changes from version to version.


>> So it wouldn't be a big deal to transfer what I've done so far in the
>> web branch..
>
> I hope you didn't work on web branch, which contains the old web site.
>

No, I never translated the website.
With web branch I meant the documentation of the development version,
so the documentation which is being updated.

As far as I remember, in the git repository the doc branch is the
stable documentation, while the web branch (of documentation) is the
documentation which is updated accordingly to the new features and
settings of each new version.
Is this correct?

I'm still far from seeing the big picture :-)

>
>> Is this ready for translations?
>
> What do you mean by "this"?  The new website?  Well, err, I've started
> working switching the build system for the documentation, but was busy
> with academic work and moving to Pisa recently, so I'm sorry there's
> still no decent support for translating the new web site.  That doesn't
> mean translators can't start translating it, but to make it possible we
> should at least make sure which parts of the new web site are stabilized
> enough so these parts could be marked with highest priority for
> translators.
>

No, I meant the last version of Doc.

>
>> What do you suggest me to do?
>
> 1) When files marked with priority 1 in the CG and chapters 2 and 3 of
> LM are ready to be published, send me them in a big patch or patchset.
> 2) I hope there will be one 2.12 release after yout work has been
> committed, so there will be a docs translation in Italian widely
> available to users.
> 3) I'll do some black magic (homebrewed scripts, text substitutions,
> moving files) to update your work to 2.13 format.
> 4) Then you'll be able to start updating your work with changes in 2.13
> docs.
>
> How do you feel with this plan?
>

It'ok..
So, if I've understood correctly, there's no need to complete the
translation of 2.12 doc.
I can send you these files for 2.12 doc, then I'll switch to 2.13 as
soon as the doc are ready to be translated.
Right?


--
Federico Bruni  |  http://www.gnurag.net/blog/

LibrePlanet Italia
http://groups.fsf.org/wiki/LibrePlanetItalia



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Re: new Italian Translation: which version of the doc?

John Mandereau
Le mercredi 14 octobre 2009 à 09:57 +0200, Federico Bruni a écrit :
> When I have to upgrade the translation to 2.13, I'll just need some
> tips about how to see the changes from version to version.

Sure, instructions are in the Contributors' Guide in sections about
Translations, I'll tell you there when time has come for this; however,
I'll first take over the first part of moving and converting the
translation from 2.12 version, because it's so a mess and there are so
few translated languages that it'll be quicker for me to apply homebrew
half-working scripts and text substitutions than explain what to do
exactly.



> No, I never translated the website.

Phew :-)


> With web branch I meant the documentation of the development version,
> so the documentation which is being updated.

The branch you mean is called "master".


> As far as I remember, in the git repository the doc branch is the
> stable documentation, while the web branch (of documentation) is the
> documentation which is updated accordingly to the new features and
> settings of each new version.
> Is this correct?

No, source of code, documentation and the new web site are all in the
same branch and thus distributed in the same source tarballs.  Just read
ROADMAP file at top of the source tree of master branch.


> So, if I've understood correctly, there's no need to complete the
> translation of 2.12 doc.
> I can send you these files for 2.12 doc, then I'll switch to 2.13 as
> soon as the doc are ready to be translated.
> Right?

Esatto!

Cheers,
John

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Re: new Italian Translation: which version of the doc?

Federico Bruni
In reply to this post by John Mandereau
John Mandereau wrote:

>> What do you suggest me to do?
>
> 1) When files marked with priority 1 in the CG and chapters 2 and 3 of
> LM are ready to be published, send me them in a big patch or patchset.
>

Which files of the CG are marked with priority 1?

I've read this list in doc 2.13 (that page is blank in 2.12.2 website
and pdf):
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.13/Documentation/contributor/Documentation-translation-details#Files-to-be-translated

And there's no mention to any file of CG with priority 1.

Another question:
I've noticed right now that I have not translated some files with
priority 1 yet, such as:
23    dedication.itely
432   macros.itexi
171   index.html.in
161   translations.template.html.in
6522  po/lilypond-doc.pot (translate to po/MY_LANGUAGE.po)
---   lilypond-texi2html.init (section TRANSLATIONS)

I guess these are important, especially po/it.po
Regards
--
Federico Bruni  |  http://www.gnurag.net/blog/

LibrePlanet Italia
http://groups.fsf.org/wiki/LibrePlanetItalia



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Re: new Italian Translation: which version of the doc?

Francisco Vila
2009/10/15 Federico Bruni <[hidden email]>:
>> 1) When files marked with priority 1 in the CG and chapters 2 and 3 of
>> LM are ready to be published, send me them in a big patch or patchset.
>>
>
> Which files of the CG are marked with priority 1?

Not files of the CG, but files listed in the CG, marked as having priority 1.

> I've read this list in doc 2.13 (that page is blank in 2.12.2 website and
> pdf):
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.13/Documentation/contributor/Documentation-translation-details#Files-to-be-translated
>
> And there's no mention to any file of CG with priority 1.

You are reading the CG.  There is a list of priority 1 files, they are
the ones of your 2nd question below

> Another question:
> I've noticed right now that I have not translated some files with priority 1
> yet, such as:
> 23    dedication.itely
> 432   macros.itexi
> 171   index.html.in
> 161   translations.template.html.in
> 6522  po/lilypond-doc.pot (translate to po/MY_LANGUAGE.po)
> ---   lilypond-texi2html.init (section TRANSLATIONS)
--
Francisco Vila. Badajoz (Spain)
www.paconet.org
www.csmbadajoz.com


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Re: new Italian Translation: which version of the doc?

Federico Bruni
Francisco Vila wrote:
> 2009/10/15 Federico Bruni <[hidden email]>:
>>> 1) When files marked with priority 1 in the CG and chapters 2 and 3 of
>>> LM are ready to be published, send me them in a big patch or patchset.
>>>
>> Which files of the CG are marked with priority 1?
>
> Not files of the CG, but files listed in the CG, marked as having priority 1.
>

Of course, sorry for the noise.. I'm out of my mind.
Now I know what to do.

Cheers,
--
Federico Bruni  |  http://www.gnurag.net/blog/

LibrePlanet Italia
http://groups.fsf.org/wiki/LibrePlanetItalia